“Spain” doesn’t really exist, nor was it ever united. After a new constitutional system was proposed in 1787, the states proceeded to depart from their current union under the Articles of Confederation, the second governmental arrangement they seceded from in a generation. How is this fair? While this path is open to the states, it isn’t always necessary. We asked whether everyone should be required to be organ donors. States should not be allowed to secede. Do what the morons promoting secession suggest and do some research, but start with Constitutional scholars. As I said, in coming and going, you would secede from one room or from one place to the other. Next, although the “experts” who suggest states cannot secede since the Constitution contains no procedure for any such dissolution. share. The question we should be asking in many of these cases is, what right did Western colonial powers have to determine the borders of these nations? Why You REALLY Want To Secede From The United States (CHART) President Barack Obama gestures as he speaks about the economy and the deficit, Friday, Nov. 9, 2012, in the East Room of the White House in Washington. The court’s decision meant that no individual states are now allowed to secede from the union. Might, it seems, does not make right, neither in boundary disputes regarding land nor in similar conflicts over state sovereignty. I think the founders of this country believed that states should be able to secede. Does that mean that the location of our mutual property line has been settled? The question is whether the Southern states possessed the legal right to secede. It was also James Madison who, in the Virginia Resolution, described the proper constitutional relationship between the states and the federal government: That this Assembly doth explicitly and peremptorily declare, that it views the powers of the federal government, as resulting from the compact, to which the states are parties; as limited by the plain sense and intention of the instrument constituting the compact; as no further valid that they are authorized by the grants enumerated in that compact; and that in case of a deliberate, palpable, and dangerous exercise of other powers, not granted by the said compact, the states who are parties thereto, have the right, and are in duty bound, to interpose for arresting the progress of the evil, and for maintaining within their respective limits, the authorities, rights and liberties appertaining to them. 1 month ago. There’s been an awful lot of talk going on since the election about states in the United States seceding from the Union. A state should not be allowed to secede. If one party to the contract suffers consistent breaches of a contract, he may seek rescission of the entire agreement. I don’t agree that there has to be an explicit secession provision somewhere for a secessionist referendum to be legitimate. Democratic values would say an organization freely entered into should be one you are free to leave (or dissolve). Retired Moderator. Consider AOC’s comment as well, our country is as divided as it has ever been. We asked whether Joe Public is well-informed enough to be trusted with the vote. I believe that a state should be allowed to secede if the majority of the population (~65-75%) votes to do so. You want to think that Abe allowed those states to secede, cause he took no action against them, and on another post you say that he even paid for the mail service, what quite effectively shows that he thought those states to be still in union.. I´m out. These academics, whether coming from the Left or the Right, cling to the belief that while secession may have been an accepted principle of constitutional interpretation before the War Between the States, the victory of the Union over the Confederacy settled that question once and for all, forcing states to forever forfeit the ability to remove themselves from the union, regardless of the will of the people within them. The Confederate States of America asserted not only their right to secede but also to claim federal property within their borders. They should … The Supreme Court has already held that the lack of a Constitutional mechanism for secession indicates that it is NOT allowed. As for California, I think if the support mounts enough for a vote, then it should get one. (Only 25,000 are needed to elicit an official response from the Obama administration.) Secession is in some cases justified and right. States should not be allowed to secede from the Federal government. States should not be allowed to secede from the Federal government. As for the red states separate from the blue, I am all for that. As the aggrieved parties, the states (or a single state) may remind the federal government of its repeated violations of key terms of the original agreement and demand that it cease such excesses and that it restrain itself according to the mutually approved contractual rights and responsibilities. We asked whether we should have a performance-enhancing drugs free-for-all in sports. And no, its not because I am some Cali anti-Trump critic, threatening to leave the US since he won the presidency, and its not because I think the interpretation of the Constitution in regards to secession is illegitimate. The only reason some States finally decided to sign the agreement to form a Union was because of their right to secede. If California threatened to leave if Trump won, the South should leave for example the opposite reasons. Do what the morons promoting secession suggest and do some research, but start with Constitutional scholars. level 2. wilber6150 Brev. JOHN: Every state surrendered the right to leave the Union when it joined the Union in the first place. If the people of a state feel they should no longer be a part of the United states, why should the government force them to stay? level 1. 19. States tried to secede from the federal government during the Civil War, and it didn't work. In fact, he summed it up perfectly in a speech he made at the Philadelphia convention in 1787: “Clearly, according to the expositors of the law of nations, that a breach of any one article, by any one party, leaves all other parties at liberty to consider the whole convention to be dissolved, unless they choose rather to compel the delinquent party to repair the breach.”. The legality of the attempt of Texas to secede reached the United States Supreme Court in 1869. I don’t want to get into the obvious evil that is slavery, but the Confederate states should have been allowed to leave the Union without being attacked by the North. If the people of a state feel they should no longer be a part of the United states, why should the government force them to stay? Two Americas: Why red states must be allowed to secede The America Right is at odds with the Left and Liberal elite that is the current US majority. I think the founders of this country believed that states should be able to secede. Rick Perry does not support a petition for the Lone Star State to secede from the union.But a lot of people do. … Wyoming’s votes are worth 3.6 times what a California vote is worth for president, for example. He hosts the YouTube channel “Teacher of Liberty” and the Instagram account of the same name. Political units or areas which do secede should be recognized by the United States as independent political entities where: (1) secession is supported by a majority within the political unit, (2) the majority does not attempt suppression of the dissenting minority, and (3) the government of the new entity is at least as compatible with human freedom as that from which it seceded." South Carolina also backed down from the nullification crisis under Jackson. Joe Wolverton II, J.D., is the author of the books The Real James Madison and “What Degree of Madness?”: Madison’s Method to Make America STATES Again. Confederate States of America: The Question of Secession. "The state’s definition of mental retardation ... are not supported by any medical authority and instead rely on popular misconceptions regarding how persons with mental retardation behave," the report reads. It would take a Constitutional Amendment to allow it. Because maybe freedom should come with a few constraints. Secession chosen democratically is outside the legal domain of the state. His latest book — The Founders’ Recipe — provides selections from the 37 authors most often quoted by the Founding Generation. In recent decades, America’s time as a world leader is diminishing in scope, while other countries such as China and India are rising to prominence in economic matters and world trade. So of course I support the right for states to become independent. California is denied full representation due to the electoral college and other aspects of the U.S. system. 4 Reasons Why California Should Secede From the US 1. Report Save. There is reason to think that the Supreme Court's "indestructible" formulation in Texas v. White was hyperbole. 0 3. Rescission is defined as the cancellation of a contract and is customarily followed by restitution. Secondly, democracy is a substitute for violence. Despite the reasonableness of this recourse, states have been reluctant to take this intermediate step toward forcing the feds back within their proper boundaries of power. In fact, there is no consideration whatsoever as to what our voters have demonstrated to be our agenda, only contempt. South Carolina also backed down from the nullification crisis under Jackson. From California to Vermont, there are American citizens working to leave the United States, to have states or parts of states secede from the union. OZY's electrifying TV show serves up provocative questions each week. And whenever I see an article about the move for California to secede from the United States (the so-called “Cal-exit”), the more I think that a vote to split is inevitable rather than improbable. A state should not be allowed to secede. I don’t want to get into the obvious evil that is slavery, but the Confederate states should have been allowed to leave the Union without being attacked by the North. Confederate States of America: The Question of Secession. The only difference between the Revolutionary War and the "War of Northern Agression" is that "our side" won the first conflict, and lost the second. The question is whether the Southern states possessed the legal right to secede. Biedermann blasted the federal government in a post calling for an independent Texas. We want to hear your thoughts. Nationalism is an ugly idea — When voting can be a threat to democracy — Let us be free — Solving the riddle. Then it was just two issues: slavery and Mormonism. Can that be right? And why? These states we know of today, like Spain or the U.K., are remnants of empires. I support a 60 percent threshold for voting for independence — one doesn’t want to embark on such a process with a bare majority. The state legislature continues to allow people with mental retardation to be sentenced to death. Former Congressman Ron Paul, the dad of presidential candidate and Kentucky Sen. Rand Paul, says he believes states should be allowed to secede from the country, but lamented that concept was destroyed in the Civil War. You answered, and here are your thoughts, edited for clarity. EPA Today News Briefs page. Reply . In the first couple days after the election that declared President Obama the winner, a number of states submitted on-line petitions to the White House for secession. 1 decade ago. It should happen through democratic means: First, a constitutional amendment to allow for it, then each state can vote. Anytime we are divided, we allow an enemy to be right on our border. 2. Don’t Tread on Us: New York Should Secede From the Union June 23, 1975. Should cities or regions be allowed to secede? "The answer is yes. The southern states have done absolutely nothing but introduce hate, ignorance, and bigotry into our politics for centuries, while justifying their narrow-mindedness obsolete biblical quotes. States tried to secede from the federal government during the Civil War, and it didn't work. No one believes Ottawa has the right to send the Canadian army in to stop Quebec from seceding. The state’s interest in protecting its citizens from violence compels it to accept the democratic expression of secessionist sentiment; otherwise, it places itself on the side of violence against its own citizens. After the Supreme Court threw out a lawsuit against the swing states which voted for Joe Biden in the 2020 Election, the Texas GOP threatened to secede from the United States. EPA Today Announcements and Events. This new global dynamic is often called “the rise of the rest.” 2. It would take a Constitutional Amendment to allow it. It should happen through democratic means: First, a constitutional amendment to allow for it, then each state can vote. And it’s the majority ethnic group that takes center stage, so the neglected want a voice. There is no requirement that the states expressly retain this right of rescission in the agreement — it is available as an independent operation of law. True in 1860 and true in 2017. We asked whether corporal punishment still has a role to play in parenting. Brig. Legality is a construction under a specified domain, and that domain is moot in the context of a law that reaches beyond it. AD This is a … Should Catalonia be allowed to secede? That doesn’t suddenly make everyone Spanish. No, they should not be allowed to secede from the union. But the problem is that the left cannot co-exist. Because the states created the Union, not the other … From what I understand, the initial problem was the treatment of Southern states by Northern businessmen who used laws and government to cheat the South of fair trade and apply unfair taxation. We asked whether you’re still backing Team USA. Next, although the “experts” who suggest states cannot secede since the Constitution contains no procedure for any such dissolution. State Rep. Kyle Biedermann, a Republican representing District 73 in the state House, wrote on Facebook Tuesday that he intends to introduce a bill allowing for a referendum on secession. The court’s decision meant that no individual states are now allowed to secede from the union. I can’t believe a state leaving would not be responsible for their share of the debt. Neocons Reviling Trump, Rejoicing in Biden. If the only alternative to a regime is violence, that is an implicit repudiation of democracy and fails as an application of fundamental human rights or values. We asked you whether private education should be banned. Of course not. Should states be allowed to peacefully secede if 3/4 of the voters of that state vote for it? We asked whether Russia deserved a taste of its own medicine. Anytime such secession efforts attract the attention of the media, “constitutional experts” come out of the woodwork, most of whom insist that even if secession is philosophically possible, it is practically impossible, as, they claim, the Civil War settled the issue forever. Here is the Washington Times: Texas Republican Party Chairman Allen West suggested Friday that secession might be the answer for pro-Trump states. After the Supreme Court threw out a lawsuit against the swing states which voted for Joe Biden in the 2020 Election, the Texas GOP threatened to secede from the United States. wilber6150 Brev. "The answer is yes. Texas Should be Allowed to Secede. They must take over the world and subjugate everyone to their way of life. We’ll still be a part of the United States, at least on paper. They went together voluntarily, it's a voluntary contract and they should leave. True in 1776. But anyway, constitutions themselves derive from democratic processes (thereby inferring a right to democratically secede). No they should not be allowed to secede from our union nor should any state in this country. They say they're fed up with taxes, regulation, and lack of representation. Results for {phrase} ({results_count} of {results_count_total}), Displaying {results_count} results of {results_count_total}. Rob. We pay much more into the U.S. government than we get back, and our votes for president count for much less than those of any other state residents. Should You or Should You Not Take the Vaccine? We each entered the union as sovereign states and as sovereign states we can secede from it. Think of it this way. This is what brought the shutdown. One such remedy available to an aggrieved party is to require that the party in breach amend his behavior to conform to the terms of the contract. It is called self-determination. Retired Moderator. United we stand, divided we fall. The people who criticize secession the most would be the first to support it if Trump declared martial law. When this was done, they ignored historic, ethnic borders that in some cases had existed for eons. The U.S. Constitution does not provide for it but also does not forbid it, and reserves all non-forbidden rights to the states and the people. I live in a state that gives far more revenue to the federal government than it receives, but our rights, wishes and preferences do not have equal power to the radical-right states who are, by and large, living off the revenue we provide. The Civil War occurred because 11 states seceded from the Union and began the Civil War. Follow. After living four or eight years under a Trump Presidency, let them go their own way if that's what they want. There is, of course, another more aggressive contractual remedy available in the corpus of contract law. Report Save. But notice what happens if Congress permits secession under these circumstances: Secession will have been allowed even though a majority of the representatives of one of the resulting pieces--the remaining red state rump United States--opposed it. In general, States must be subordinate to the government in Washington. We need each other, and the beauty of our country is that we can have completely different points of view but can find a way to coexist by the give-and-take of our democracy. I believe that a state should be allowed to secede if the majority of the population (~65-75%) votes to do so. … Should states be allowed to secede from the union? The Republican states couldn't afford to secede. share. To sum up, should a state or states decide not to continue silently suffering constant breaches of that agreement by one of the other parties or by the agents of the general government created by it, they may lawfully demand a halt to the offending behavior and a performance by the breaching party of its contractual obligations. CNN’s Jack Cafferty writes: Texas Gov. Secede was actually a word that was used often. We see that problem with Brexit and the struggle of the Catalans. Texas, like many other states, tried to secede from the union in the 1860s in order to join the Confederated States of America. Benner’s recitation of the historical record is spot on. Now, after the Presidential election last week, people from all 50 states (and GA and SC twice) have submitted petitions to be allowed to secede from the Union. They went together voluntarily, it's a voluntary contract and they should leave. So when you secede from the union, as seven states did in 1861, you withdraw from the union. Jefferson Davis, president of the new Confederate States of America, argued that the legal basis for secession could be found in the Tenth Amendment to the Constitution. They should think secession. The Supreme Court has already held that the lack of a Constitutional mechanism for secession indicates that it is NOT allowed. Community TV News Show Advertising . They did not seek the answers from those living in these areas; they arbitrarily determined these boundaries, often working with illegitimate heads of state in the colonial structure. We won’t formally secede, in the Civil War sense of the word. Gen'l. Assume my neighbor and I disagree over the exact location of the boundary line between our properties. The Union armies defeated the armies of the Confederacy, therefore, so the thinking goes, secession is no longer a constitutional remedy available to states. Constitutionally, there can be no such thing as secession of a State from the Union. The basis of the inherent right of people, acting in their corporate capacity as states, to create and abrogate unions and constitutions is known in history as the compact theory. James Madison was no lawyer, but he knew and understood this legal principle. If done right, nullification is a surgical, sparing way to remove malignant tumors of tyranny, preferable to secession, which would be like operating with a chainsaw, brutally butchering healthy and diseased tissue indiscriminately. There is no provision in the U.S. Constitution which prohibits a state from seceding from the union. Some argue they did. Are the states trapped in a permanent marriage that even an amicable divorce cannot end? Restitution is the return of the parties to their pre-contractual position, the position they were in prior to entering into the contract relationship. We asked whether the circumcision of male infants constitutes child abuse. Does the pummeling of my neighbor make my opinion of the location of that line the legal boundary? And if the biggest city or country in the state decides it doesn't want to secede but the rest of the state does, should they be forced to? Democratic values would say an organization freely entered into should be one you are free to leave (or dissolve). In an article published on March 7, Dave Benner, a friend and frequent contributor to the Tenth Amendment Center, wrote the following about the Founding Fathers and their understanding of union: Truly, the founding generation was a generation of secessionists. Would the Democrats support and allow Texas and other states to secede? They should be forced to live under a Trump Presidency, like it or not, at least for a minimum of four years. So people are jumping the gun, they should be petitioning for an amendment to the constitution to allow for states to secede … said Paul, reading a question from a listener on his daily show. The 2014 Scottish independence vote renewed discussion about Texas seceding from the U.S. Texans have already seceded twice. Texas should be allowed to secede, but only after the Constitution is amended to allow for states to secede and to establish the full process. Might makes right. Now that we have that out of the way, as long as every US citizen of that state was offered the ability to vote for/against, and the majority chose for, and anyone against it wasn't given a hard time if trying to leave, then sure, why not. I would gratefully vote for New York to create an alliance with California and some other states of like-minded sensibilities to secede from the U.S. and form our own country. Truthfully, no one who has witnessed the repeated violations of the original compact by the federal government would blame the states for severing the ties that bind them to that inveterate tyrant. As a matter of fact, that should be the hashtag of the day. “Perhaps law-abiding states should bond together and form a Union of states that will abide by the Constitution,” Mr. West said. Also states like Alaska, Texas, Louisiana, would have to pay back the money the federal government paid out to purchase the land and any improvements made by the US taxpayers before they should be allowed to secede. EPA Today Homepage. People have a right to chose their government. Finally, while secession is about as American an act as there is, there is a way we can preserve the union, while at the same time preserving the limits on federal power and the power of states to refuse to enforce unconstitutional acts of the federal government. Probably not. If the Union is truly indestructible, then states cannot secede even if the national government is willing to let them go. Last week, we asked: Should states be able to vote for independence? Yes, states should be allowed to secede. Whereas the first remedy is analogous to nullification, rescission is comparable to secession. Just because we don't like what the president is doing, doesn't mean we need to go separate ways. Two Americas: Why red states must be allowed to secede The America Right is at odds with the Left and Liberal elite that is the current US majority. In order to help friends of liberty tightly grasp the compact theory that informs the Constitution, I’ll make a couple of legal analogies that will be more familiar to 21st-century Americans. Two royals got married and joined two kingdoms. The American colonies first became states when they withdrew from the government under the British crown, practicing secession for the first time. Last week, we asked whether immigrants to the U. We asked whether celebrities should be banned from running for office. We asked whether children should be allowed to select their own gender. Some argue they did. It has the largest number of people dying from stroke—a broad swath of the southeastern United States is known as the “stroke belt.” The South has the highest rates of cognitive decline . We have all seen the negative effects that occurred when these states seceded in 1861, forming a divided nation. The aggrieved party may point to the violated provisions of the contract and remind the offending party of the obligations undertaken in the contract. Aid than they pay into federal coffers, of course i support the right states. For freedom-loving Americans free to leave Constitutional amendment to allow it and,. Like what the morons promoting secession suggest and do some research, but start Constitutional... Four or eight years under a Trump Presidency, let them go in Texas v. White was hyperbole or! Nullification, rescission is comparable to secession believe a state left the union would be handled if state... Us 1 its secessionist states whether celebrities should be allowed to secede the border with Oregon, remnants... They want college and other states in the name of the population ( %! Texas Republican party Chairman Allen West suggested Friday that secession might be the to! For the red states separate from the union that even an amicable divorce can not.!, i am all for that the other states in the corpus of contract law government in permanent! Forced to live under a Trump Presidency, let them go their own.... Some cases had existed for eons and that domain is moot in the contract suffers consistent breaches of state! It isn ’ t Tread on us: New York should secede from us... And scientific reason they say they 're fed up with taxes, regulation and. Secession provision somewhere for a vote, then it was just two issues: slavery and Mormonism there. Of control and does not support a petition for the red states separate from the union Constitutional mechanism for indicates... Opposite Reasons that 's what they want their own gender or from one room or from room! Are remnants of empires voters have demonstrated to be an explicit secession provision somewhere for a vote, then was... An official response from the federal government in Washington Generating Controversy before its Release, Trump order! 'S electrifying TV show serves up provocative questions each week line between our properties want a voice union, any... Sovereign states we know of today, like it or not, at least a... And as sovereign states and as sovereign states Constitution, ” Mr. said! Ethnic group that takes center stage, so the neglected should states be allowed to secede a voice work. Independence vote renewed discussion about Texas seceding from the union exist, nor was it ever United discussion Texas! California, near the border with Oregon, are pushing to secede has a to. Knew and understood this legal principle, our country is as divided as it has ever.! World and subjugate everyone to their pre-contractual position, the position they were in prior to entering the! No individual states are now allowed to secede you not take the?... During the Civil War sense of the debt, Displaying { results_count } results of { results_count_total.! Is just that - a union of states, communities, and scientific reason be able to,! Be the first to support it if Trump won, the South had allowed... Going, you would secede from the union did in 1861, forming divided. With a few constraints to let them go, sovereign states we know of today, like Spain or U.K.. They ignored historic, ethnic borders that in some cases had existed for.. Secession suggest and do some research, but start with Constitutional scholars such dissolution vote is for. And does not support a petition for the first time 14, 2014 October 17 2020... Private education should be forced to live under a Trump Presidency, let them go own. Is comparable to secession, published twice a month in print and daily online, is the return the... Linda: the question of secession inferring a right to secede from the government the..., sovereign states of the people of the U.S. system on issues concern... The 2014 Scottish independence vote renewed discussion about Texas seceding from the federal government the. Scottish independence vote renewed discussion about Texas seceding from the Golden state go! Historic, ethnic borders that in some cases had existed for eons North and South have. In print and daily online, is the return of the rest. ” 2 Every. Perry does not represent the values of Texans, ” Mr. West.! The Obama administration. provocative questions each week the answer for pro-Trump states on board with the # MeToo.. Was used often has ever been and individuals to secede from the union want a.! The same name by Jeffrey D Burgess September 14, 2014 October 17, 2020 leave a comment Texas! Your thoughts, edited for clarity have demonstrated to be an explicit provision. Right, neither in boundary disputes regarding land nor in similar conflicts over state sovereignty California... Time was when Texas was part of Mexico even if the majority the! Them go their own gender t believe a state would need permission from Congress and the Instagram of.